Utah Dialogue

How can Utah Eagle Forum be pro family and be against dating-violence bill? It seems to me that the organization is more about protecting gun rights than protecting young women from being abused by their boyfriends.

Yes, the Utah Eagle Forum has a set agenda.. set by Gayle Ruzicka. The Utah Eagle Forum does not suppor the National Eagle Forum agenda - however it benefits from the association with the National Group.

The Utah Eagle Forum does not support single fathers or fathers rights issues. It did not even address issues on child support, driver license suspension or mandatory mediation. The Utah Eagle Forum should be boycotted as it is damaging the National Eagle Forum issues.

One might sum up the Utah Eagle Forum as a ‘radical feminist ultra-conservative group’. It purports to support parental rights, but only from the woman’s view — never in support of the father.

from mf4j.org

The Utah Eagle Forum (an affiliate of the National Eagle Forum) appears not to support the National Eagle Forum’s position on Fathers rights and equal parenting. The Utah Eagle Forum failed to respond to requests for any explanation as to why it did not oppose the Utah bills that increased child support and allows suspension of driver licenses. While the Utah Eagle Forum presents itself as a conservative activist group, it fails when it comes to true family and equality values. Gun rights, school vouchers, vaccinations, and other select topics have been addressed by Ms. Ruzicka and her troops, yet only if from her own point of view as a Utah woman - however the Utah Group remained silent on issues affecting non-custodial parents, fathers and men. The male perspective was left completely out of the Utah Eagle Forum’s efforts this year.

Why is this?

Yes, parental rights were addressed on school vaccinations, but what about child support, child support bonds, new ‘definitions’ of child support, suspension of driver license, expanding parent time, etc. These topics are very important and were not any issue that was flying low or off the radar. They were hotly debated from the radical feminist view - yet where was the Utah Eagle Forum???

This is a shame, as the Utah Eagle forum does not mirror the philosphies of the National Eagle Forum that promote (among its other conservative issues) families, men and fathers, equal parenting, and exposure of radical feminist activity.

There is a growing trend in what I call feminist conservatism groups that reflect key issues in common with mainstream conservatism (ie gun rights, abortion, etc), however, when it comes to exposing or fighting against gender bias, these groups show their true colors.

This is a dangerous trend is it only expands the gender bias political arena and makes it more difficult to identify those groups that actually support true equality and those that continue gender bias - but perhaps do support other general mainstream conservative or libertarian issues other than fathers rights, equal parenting, and true individual equality.

(Nevada’s Eagle Forum chapter did state in correspondence that it did not support equal or shared parenting.)

The National Eagle Forum has a dissent in its ranks and will rott from within if it does not take steps to ensure its message is accurately portrayed by its chapters.

The Men and Fathers for their own brand of justice group does not represent all men. They are bitter and rejected men who want to stir up trouble and find gender bias everywhere. Here they are painting the Eagle Forum ladies as men haters and radical feminists. No one with any experience of the Eagle Forum could believe the writer. Buzz words are offered up with undertones of anger and overt hostility towards women. The woman at the heart of today’s rant is Gayle Ruzicka. The reaction the bitter menandfathers want is for the Utah Eagle Forum to reject feminism and for the readers of this dialogue to see the MF group as mainstream. Their dire warnings of conspiracy to commit gender bias and dangerous trends are fear mongering and divisive. What has this group done that is not destructive?

Simon Bell must be mistaken. He must not have compared the positions of the National Eagle Forum with that of the Utah Eagle Forum. Phylis Schlafly (sp), founder of the Natinoal Eagle Forum, is PRO- EQUAL PARENTING for divorcing parents - a position that MF4J.org adopts. However Gayle Ruzicka of the UTAH EAGLE FORUM does not mirror this position, nor does she encourage her group to support any bill favoring non-custodial parents.

In a recent public meeting with Senator Greg Bell, he stated that Equal Custody as a default would mean a loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars to Utah. Men and Fathers for Justice, IAMNOTAVISITOR.ORG, FORGOTTENPARENT.org, MF4J.org, Shared Parenting Utah (FOCUS), Fathers Meetup Utah, and other groups and individuals hope to bring the truth to light - that our children are a means to secure federal funding - that this is the overarchng concern in Utah - that children can be used to bring in money for the state. Studies have shown that the best situation is joint-physical custody for children of divorce.

What else has Men and Fathers for Justice done? Along with the previously mentioned groups, MF4J.org has brought CRISPE.org to Utah to promote equal/shared parenting. MF4J.org has held public activities for fathers and families including a monthly support meeting. MF4J.org members have written books from the male perspective, been guests on multiple radio shows, provide support resources for victims of abuse, etc.

As far as I have seen, Men and Fathers for Justice members and leaders are not bitter, but frustrated. MF4J.org works for equal justice - no matter what the gender. In fact, mothers, daughters, step-parents and even grandparents have been known to participate in MF4J.org activities and meetings.

As response - what has MF4J.org done that ‘is’ destructive?

Men and Fathers for Justice joined with iamnotavisitor.org, forgottenparent.org and Fathers Rights Meetup in a discussion with other non-custodial parents with Utah State Senator Greg Bell.

There was not any representation from the Utah Eagle’s Forum, however, the issues brought up should be of concern to the Utah Eagle’s Forum. Specifically, the acknowledgement that child support funds are a source of federal funding for the state of Utah and that any threat to reduce the amount of support collected is not in the state’s interest. For example 50/50 equal parenting which is in the best interest of children would not be in the best interest of the state of Utah as it would lose ‘millions of dollars’. I think the Utah Eagle’s Forum should become more involved with equal parenting rights and help bring awareness to the federal funding that is dependent on the divorce and sole-custodial parent industry.

See the below video where Utah State Senator Greg Bell explains this truth that Utah is more concerned with the money the state gets from the current high-contention child support system rather than the best interest that children to have an equal relationship with both parents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKvVF3gvyYU
(Recorded by IamNotaVisitor.org)

(Transcript below and commentary regarding ORS provided by Utah Fathers Rights Meetup Group)

Audience member: The best interests of the child is what I want to talk about. When we discuss this issue of 50/50 custody what often comes up is the economic situation for mothers. That’s not talking about the best interests of the child then. You’ve switched from the best interests of the child now to the best interests of one parent. And what I would like to say about this is we really need to separate those two issues, because if it’s truly in the best interests of the child having involvement from both parents, then why are we messing with that because we’re concerned about economics for one parent?

Senator Bell: Well, you make a great point and if you and I were designing a new world that’s where we would start. But we’re not. We’re stuck with a system and I’m just saying that there’s no way you’re going to lop off hundreds of millions of child support overnight or for even a three year ammortization. You know what I’m saying. It’s a huge economic and social shift and you know whether you and I and all the angels agree or not we’re not going to get the governor and 103 other people you know to move there overnight so ah you’re right. The interests of the child is not necesarily found with the child support cause the child support may or may not go to the best interest of the children.

Another audience member: Senator Bell, I am one of those children. My parents divorced in Montana. And my dad currently lives here in Utah. It was a very unfair situation and I’d like to see something on the legislature that puts parents in responsibility to that child support. I’d like to see a program like Horizontee cards for welfare that maybe we keep track of that child support so that we know it’s going for the children cause it’s not parental support, it’s child support. And my mom took the child support and didn’t use it to support me. My mom never gave me a college fund. She never made sure I had the tools to be a successful adult. I escaped from my mother from a very abusive situation at the age of 17. My dad had to continue paying child support till I was 19. And I didn’t live with my mom and I had no support from her. I would like to see something on the legislature that changes to where we do keep track of child support. My dad is currently $140,000… of what it goes towards, of what it’s spent on. Because the price of raising a child is not dependent on a percentage of a wage, it is a price, but shouldn’t we keep track of where that money goes so it’s not used for mommy when the children are gone, for her and the new husband to go away to Hawaii. That’s not a very useful use of that child support… and there’s parents trading there child support for drugs and all sorts of ridiculous things.

Just how much money is this hundreds of millions in child support?? According to the website of the Utah Office of Recovery Services, over $195.9 million was collected in fiscal year 2006. Of this amount over $23.4 million was distributed to the Utah Department of Health (as apposed to being distributed to recipient parents), and at least $6.3 million made it directly into the state’s general fund (as apposed to being distributed to recipient parents).

Also see:
www.menandfathersforjustice.org
www.crispe.org
www.iamnotavisitor.org
www.forgottenparent.org

The “bitter, rejected men who want to stir up trouble” is certainly bias itself. What parent, deprived of seeing their child would not be upset?? This is the most basic of human rights and they are being denied this right. There is no enforcement of parent-time interference! In Utah, men, noncustodial parents have no rights. The custodial taunt, “take me to court, nothing happens, I do not do drugs, I do not abuse my child, no Judge will take my child from me, is absolutely correct. Add to that the threat of having false abuse charges filed and the noncustodial parent has no where to go. He immediately is resigned to superived visitatio, if any visitation at all, until the issue is resolved. If found that the charges are false, NOTHING happens to the custodial who filed them.

Do not judge these men until you have been there. I am not a male. I am a mother whose son has been deprived of this most basic right. I have spent thousands on a system I had originally thought to be fair, only to find that Utah is among the worst in the Nation to recognize the right of a child to have a relationship with his/her father. A child needs BOTH parents. That is what these men are fighting for.

I am a father that is in a custody battle right now my “wife” still married seems to me using this state to keep me from having visitation from my two children. We are not yet divorced because of the custody, we had a divorce started in Arizona then she moved to Utah and cancelled one to start one in Utah now i have restraining orders on me and I dont even live in the state. I have put in several in writing letters to try and see my children and denied i tried verbally asking but am denied is there any hope for me to see my kids or is Utah simply the state that lets the women deprive the children of their fathers. is there any hope or some where I can turn for help, I was deprived for 4 months of talking to my children I called every day only to be taunted by her. not that this is always the case but is it common for this abuse of our legal system in Utah.